tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656430.post115595566958809049..comments2023-08-21T06:06:59.196-07:00Comments on Hellbound Alleee: "We Need Government Because People are Bad" A Beginner's Guide to What Eventually will be ObviousHellbound Alleeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10268832216080854759noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656430.post-1157064951342350752006-08-31T15:55:00.000-07:002006-08-31T15:55:00.000-07:00Nobody can answer the...da da-daaaaMORAL ARGUMENT!...Nobody can answer the...da da-daaaa<BR/><BR/>MORAL ARGUMENT!<BR/><BR/>Actually, you should talk to Franc. But no, what needs to happen is you need to answer the moral argument. Then maybe we can talk about privati...I mean <I>people owning things and offering services voluntarily.</I> <BR/><BR/>Franc emailed you, you guys can take it from there.Hellbound Alleeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10268832216080854759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656430.post-1157064831660917872006-08-31T15:53:00.000-07:002006-08-31T15:53:00.000-07:00ChairoNoMe: I sent you an email in regards to comi...ChairoNoMe: I sent you an email in regards to coming on the show. Check your email...Francois Tremblayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04760072622693359795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656430.post-1156991283563739042006-08-30T19:28:00.000-07:002006-08-30T19:28:00.000-07:00Sorry for not addressing your post directly. I was...Sorry for not addressing your post directly. I was trying to find something on the topic of government and free trade to comment on, and it looks like I didn't find something that was relevant enough.<BR/><BR/>I think we both talked about many different things that encompass the entire political spectrum. I think it's hard to debate without isolating a few issues and debating them one by one. I guess for starters we should have two separate discussions: one on the environment, and the other on the effects of privatization.<BR/><BR/>Would that be fine to discuss here or do you want to talk about something else?ChairoNoMe9390khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16939267385765736256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656430.post-1156982609841633422006-08-30T17:03:00.000-07:002006-08-30T17:03:00.000-07:00I'll have to add there, that you really need to Ch...I'll have to add there, that you really need to Check your Premises. I really don't know what you're talking about re the "people's houses burned down" remarks. What are your sources? Since when is it free to use an ambulance, a hospital, or a fire department? Are the public <I>monopolies</I> great for everyone? Does it matter, since you don't have a choice whether or not to use them, anyway? Since when is it free to go to school? SInce when is gain/profit a bad thing? Do you know what gain is? Do you think that wasting your own resources is good for your bottom line? You're not a business person.<BR/><BR/>Then read the post.<BR/><BR/>PS: the WORLD's biggest polluter is the US Army.Hellbound Alleeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10268832216080854759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656430.post-1156982021657429032006-08-30T16:53:00.000-07:002006-08-30T16:53:00.000-07:00Yes, yes, I understand what you are saying, but yo...Yes, yes, I understand what you are saying, but you did not respond to the post. You are arguing about some stuff we said on the show, yes, but you aren't addressing the blog post you are commenting on. Do you have a counter to the moral argument? <BR/><BR/>If it's bad to shoot people, then it's bad for everyone to shoot people. What's wrong with that? Is it okay to steal from people? <BR/><BR/>I'm not arguing that "a free market solves every problem." I'm arguing against the pro-government stance that the solution to every problems is <B>violence.</B> You have just argued that we need violence to solve problems like giving people educations and "saving the environment." I am arguing that a <B>monopoly of violent force,</B> otherwise known as the US Government, is in fact <B>never</B> a solution to <B>any</B> of the problems you've addressed.Hellbound Alleeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10268832216080854759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11656430.post-1156917639551892042006-08-29T23:00:00.000-07:002006-08-29T23:00:00.000-07:00I don't understand why so many atheists are libert...I don't understand why so many atheists are libertarians. I consider myself a liberal and an atheist, but I listen and watch a few libertarian oriented shows such as your Hellbound Alleee show and Penn & Teller's BS. I agree with them on most things, like banning the death penalty, keeping religion out of government, and keeping out of other people's business (especially with wars).<BR/><BR/>Where I differ with libertarians is the overwhelming trust they put into the free market. I do not agree that the free market solves every problem and I think this is been proven in matters of public education and public police and fire departments. We tried having privatized fire departments and privatized schools over a hundred years ago in the United States. The result? People's houses burned down because they weren't a member of the "club". Kids just worked on the farm instead of getting an education. Unless you were a skilled laborer, the only way you could get into educated fields such as law and medicine was if you had a wealthy family. Luckily today that isn't the case.<BR/><BR/>I did also catch one of your blog bits where you mention that the corporations should not be blamed for polluting. What I found funny is that you said in one breath that we need environmental regulations but in the next breath you say that corporations can be trusted to regulate themselves because it makes good business sense to take care of the environment. Well, I think the facts speak to the contrary.<BR/><BR/>You mentioned that the biggest polluter in the US is the US government and the problem is exacerbated by the fact that they don't have to follow environmental protection laws. Sure that's a big problem that needs to be addressed, but corporations are not limited to the United States. If you look at the WORLD'S biggest polluters, corporations like Exxon-Mobil and Monsanto pollute more than anyone else. It's a HUGE problem and you shouldn't be so quick to blame it all on the government. I'm sure if you were just to look within the United States and took all the corporations and compared the amount of pollution they produce vs the amount the government produces you'd find that the corporations have a much worse track record on the environment.<BR/><BR/>As for your comments on free market anarchy, we've seen what happens when corporations run governments. Read up on what happened in Cochabamba, Bolivia when bunch of private investors, including a subsidiary of the corporation Bechtel privatized the water supply. There's more detail <A HREF="http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/bolivia/timeline.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>. Essentially the people held a peaceful protest and the police fought the protesters with tear gas, injuring 175 and blinding two people for life. A later protest left six people dead. Through an unofficial referendum it is found that 96% of the people disapproved of the water privatization plan but the government still refused to terminate the contract with the investors.<BR/><BR/>This is what happens when corporations are running things. The only things corporations care about is making maximum profit. Protecting the environment or preserving democracy doesn't usually factor into their profit-making schemes.<BR/><BR/>I would love to talk to you more about this, possibly even debate with you on your radio show. You can email me at chaironome [symbol that is an at sign] gmail [dot] com .ChairoNoMe9390khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16939267385765736256noreply@blogger.com