No, no! I didn't ask that! I didn't ask "why did god create man." I asked what was his intention for man when he made them. What did God expect from them, what kind of creature did God intend to make?
I'm sorry if it doesn't make sense. My question is really "did god intend for man to be good, or did he intend for the Fall." The answer to this question is what should make for some interesting contradictions.
Bear with me, because I'm not going to answer your question directly and probably not answer it at all; I'm not smart enough for that. I will use big 'G' god to differentiate the Judeo/ Christian God from other god myths. And from your posts, I assume you don't mean the god Ahura Mazda, but Jehova, Yahweh.
Apparently, God's intention for creating man was to have worshippers. This is demonstrated by the 10 Commandments the first 4 of which are devoted to worship of your Lord, God. This is a rather self-centered purpose, but ultimately doesn't bear fruit. God entered into a bet with Lucifer concerning the true faith of a common man - Job was chosen to suffer the wager. Lucifer lost the bet, but God didn't get off very easy as Job read God the riot act about being a good role model that God was not being at that moment. God departed, never to speak directly to man again.
Speaking of fruit...in the Garden of Eden myth, all things were provided for Adam and Eve. There were no problems to overcome, no questions to ponder, no decisions to make, and no rules to break - save one. "Of the tree of knowledge you shall not eat!" It's also called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but whatever, you know how myths go.
Now why would God even put up any kind of forbidden fruit or temptation if the possibilty existed that it would be chosen? Whether an apple or pomogranite, Adam or Eve is not important. What is important to the myth is that someone choose to the very thing that is forbidden. In this one act of disobedience (or moment of self-actualization) man is expelled from the easy life to fend for himself in a dangerous and unpredictable world.
Did God intend the FALL? Who knows the mind of God? Myth or reality, no one can know what God is thinking, just as no one can know what I am thinking. But, God did provide the temptation and the instruction not to mess with it. We can then assume God was aware of the possibilities, but not necessarily the outcome which argues against pre-destination theology.
After the fall, mankind struggled through life having to make all the decisions to ensure survival and well-being. Choosing the godhead was also left to mankind to determine. According to the myth, God periodically gave hints and nudges in the direction he thought mankind should go. On a few occassions, God stepped in rather forcefully, punishing, killing, and generally making life miserable.
Did God intend man to be good or bad? Simply watching children grow up will convince just about anyone that man is naturally bad. No one has to remind Tommy to eat all the cookies himself, not sharing a single one, and to kick his playmates at every opportunity. No mother teaches Suzy to fling spaghetti at her best friend. Parents go to great lengths to teach their offspring to share, play nice, not to break stuff, steal, hit, or bite. However, most parents have pretty much given up on teaching 16 yr old Suzy not to dress like a whore or Tommy from talking like a drunken sailor on leave. God left plenty of hints and admonitions that children should be raised to be good, not bad.
What kind of creature did God intend? For all the slick snakeoil salesmen of formulaic self-help books and videos that only serve to make the authors rich and happy, there is an ounce truth to what they sell. When asked which of the Commandments was greatest, Jesus said, "Love." To love requires that each person must know themselves inside and out. This is called in modern parlance "self-actuallization". Before one can love others, one must first love oneself.
So, God made the fall possible and probable; God pushed people into the ways of righteousness; God provided a brain to each of us to ponder the effects of our choices on ourselves and others. The God of the Jewish and Christian mythology, apparently intended mankind to be good despite all the temptations, to be generous, compassionate, to know good FROM evil, make decisions and even judgements, to get through life as graciously, gracefully, and joyously as one can given all the difficulties that life presents leaving those around us as unharmed as possible.
I hope I have answered your Qs in the desired manner.
A small personal addendum: I am not an atheist per se. For one to say God is not real, one must first acknowledge there is a God that can be denied. I don't deny God because there is none to deny. The mythology of the Judeo/ Christian God is a fine tool and lesson, the collected wisdom of centuries of human thought and experiance. One needn't dismiss the message because one doesn't like the messenger or the style of stationary upon which it is written.
"You can do anything you want, but PLEEAZE don't throw me in that thir briar patch!"
There is no god. (Ok, I'm on a reality kick at the moment.) The bullshit story about the bullshit fall is just to "prove" that we are all worthless and weak (now drop and give me 20!). Nothing like the old "doomed from the onset" ploy of Christianity to create broken and fucked-up followers.
IF everything I know is wrong, and IF some arbitrary and insane superbeing/boogeyman is responsible for everything, THEN I must assume that we Human Beings were destined for greatness, BUT NO! Our one common ancestor fucked up! So now we're screwed, unless we believe in fairies, and some anemic-looking Italianate pseudo-Jew.
5 comments:
No, no! I didn't ask that! I didn't ask "why did god create man." I asked what was his intention for man when he made them. What did God expect from them, what kind of creature did God intend to make?
I'm sorry if it doesn't make sense. My question is really "did god intend for man to be good, or did he intend for the Fall." The answer to this question is what should make for some interesting contradictions.
Bear with me, because I'm not going to answer your question directly and probably not answer it at all; I'm not smart enough for that. I will use big 'G' god to differentiate the Judeo/ Christian God from other god myths. And from your posts, I assume you don't mean the god Ahura Mazda, but Jehova, Yahweh.
Apparently, God's intention for creating man was to have worshippers. This is demonstrated by the 10 Commandments the first 4 of which are devoted to worship of your Lord, God. This is a rather self-centered purpose, but ultimately doesn't bear fruit. God entered into a bet with Lucifer concerning the true faith of a common man - Job was chosen to suffer the wager. Lucifer lost the bet, but God didn't get off very easy as Job read God the riot act about being a good role model that God was not being at that moment. God departed, never to speak directly to man again.
Speaking of fruit...in the Garden of Eden myth, all things were provided for Adam and Eve. There were no problems to overcome, no questions to ponder, no decisions to make, and no rules to break - save one. "Of the tree of knowledge you shall not eat!" It's also called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, but whatever, you know how myths go.
Now why would God even put up any kind of forbidden fruit or temptation if the possibilty existed that it would be chosen? Whether an apple or pomogranite, Adam or Eve is not important. What is important to the myth is that someone choose to the very thing that is forbidden. In this one act of disobedience (or moment of self-actualization) man is expelled from the easy life to fend for himself in a dangerous and unpredictable world.
Did God intend the FALL? Who knows the mind of God? Myth or reality, no one can know what God is thinking, just as no one can know what I am thinking. But, God did provide the temptation and the instruction not to mess with it. We can then assume God was aware of the possibilities, but not necessarily the outcome which argues against pre-destination theology.
After the fall, mankind struggled through life having to make all the decisions to ensure survival and well-being. Choosing the godhead was also left to mankind to determine. According to the myth, God periodically gave hints and nudges in the direction he thought mankind should go. On a few occassions, God stepped in rather forcefully, punishing, killing, and generally making life miserable.
Did God intend man to be good or bad? Simply watching children grow up will convince just about anyone that man is naturally bad. No one has to remind Tommy to eat all the cookies himself, not sharing a single one, and to kick his playmates at every opportunity. No mother teaches Suzy to fling spaghetti at her best friend. Parents go to great lengths to teach their offspring to share, play nice, not to break stuff, steal, hit, or bite. However, most parents have pretty much given up on teaching 16 yr old Suzy not to dress like a whore or Tommy from talking like a drunken sailor on leave. God left plenty of hints and admonitions that children should be raised to be good, not bad.
What kind of creature did God intend? For all the slick snakeoil salesmen of formulaic self-help books and videos that only serve to make the authors rich and happy, there is an ounce truth to what they sell. When asked which of the Commandments was greatest, Jesus said, "Love." To love requires that each person must know themselves inside and out. This is called in modern parlance "self-actuallization". Before one can love others, one must first love oneself.
So, God made the fall possible and probable; God pushed people into the ways of righteousness; God provided a brain to each of us to ponder the effects of our choices on ourselves and others. The God of the Jewish and Christian mythology, apparently intended mankind to be good despite all the temptations, to be generous, compassionate, to know good FROM evil, make decisions and even judgements, to get through life as graciously, gracefully, and joyously as one can given all the difficulties that life presents leaving those around us as unharmed as possible.
I hope I have answered your Qs in the desired manner.
A small personal addendum: I am not an atheist per se. For one to say God is not real, one must first acknowledge there is a God that can be denied. I don't deny God because there is none to deny. The mythology of the Judeo/ Christian God is a fine tool and lesson, the collected wisdom of centuries of human thought and experiance. One needn't dismiss the message because one doesn't like the messenger or the style of stationary upon which it is written.
"You can do anything you want, but PLEEAZE don't throw me in that thir briar patch!"
There is no god. (Ok, I'm on a reality kick at the moment.) The bullshit story about the bullshit fall is just to "prove" that we are all worthless and weak (now drop and give me 20!). Nothing like the old "doomed from the onset" ploy of Christianity to create broken and fucked-up followers.
IF everything I know is wrong, and IF some arbitrary and insane superbeing/boogeyman is responsible for everything, THEN I must assume that we Human Beings were destined for greatness, BUT NO! Our one common ancestor fucked up! So now we're screwed, unless we believe in fairies, and some anemic-looking Italianate pseudo-Jew.
has beverly jablonsky attended a catholic college
Has hellbound alleee or beverly jablonsky ever attended a catholic college by any chance?
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