Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Dodgy McDodgerson: An Epic Email Exchange

I've been posting today's email exchange on My Atheist Nexus Page.

So, here it is:

Hello Alleee

Sorry not to reply sooner. I'm glad to hear from you
because after I send my last email, I thought of a
couple of things I wanted to share.

God is not a monster. He weeps for you because you
don't understand and worse, you do not want to
understand and because you don't want Him, you
will perish ...unless, of course, you change your mind.

You make is sound like God is a monster, that He just
wants to chuck you into hell, and He makes you worship

Yes, there is bad news. There is a hell.

There is good news. God made it possible for you to be
saved from going to hell.

More good news. You don't have to love Him. You don't
even have to want to love Him. You just have to want to
know the truth.

If you will just set aside your thoughts and feelings for
a while, tell God, "I only want to know the truth, one
way or the other. If you are real (and if I am wrong),
show me." He will show you.

"For God so loved Alleee that He gave His only Son so
that Alleee should not perish but have everlasting life."

If Alleee had been the only person on earth who needed
to be saved, Jesus would have come to earth to die
for her and He would have done it WILLINGLY. Why?
Because He loves you.

If you haven't watched this video before, please watch
it and consider what these people say hell is like and
decide if you want that or not. And if you think they
had some sort of chemical reaction in the brain, then
explain how these people had similar experiences.
How did that one guy live after being in the morgue
freezer for 3 days. Here's the link ....

It is no accident that you and I talking about God.
I am here talking to you because God arranged it
and it is because He cares about you. You can
find out if He is a monster or if He is a loving God.
Even these videos show His love for you and anyone
who watches them because He wants to warn you.

This is urgent, Alleee, because Jesus is coming soon
to catched up the Christians to heaven. Then there
will be a tribulation period. If you don't change your
mind before Jesus raptures the Christians, watch for
these things: There will be coming a man who hurts
his head somehow and it will be miraculous how he
recovers. He will bring peace to Israel. He will reign
there for 7 years. The world will worship him. He will
rule the world from Jerusalem.

He will require everyone to have a number placed in
their forehead or right arm. It is thought that it will
be a "chip" the size of rice kernel that will be inserted
under the skin with a needle. On it will be information
about you such as your SSN etc. People who do not
take this number will not be able to buy or sell. It
will be a cashless money system. The Bible also says
that all who take this number will be doomed. I don't
know what the Bible means by that but it cannot be

If you have not accepted Jesus as your Savior, you
will have to live through the tribulation and it will
be a terrible time. I believe the reason we are seeing
such financial and other turmoil today is because
it is leading up to the time of tribulation and then it
will even get worse. God doesn't do this; it is Satan
and man who do this. A little email is not enough
to explain it all fully so you need to read your Bible.

Here's another set of videos about Bible prophecy.
This guy does a great job of explaining Bible
prophecy and it is easy to listen to him. Just watch
a video or two each day.

If you are really interested in finding the truth,
here's another excellent website. Here you will
discover how much forgiven you really are and
how to accept Jesus in prayer....
I recommend the radio programs especially. I
also recommend the book called "Classic
Christianity" by Bob George. It is excellent!

Above all, keep an open mind. Don't assume
immediately, when you see something bad, that
God is a monster. Try to see why things are the
way they are and if you don't understand, go to
God and ask Him. Remember also that there
are some things we will never know the answers
to until we get to heaven.

love and hugs

Me: Helen: Did God make the rule that people who don't love Him go to hell?

"Hi Alleee You do not have to love God, to accept
Jesus Christ as God and the Lord, and
to ask Him to come and live in you. You
just need to accept Him and then if you
don't love God, He will shed His love
abroad in your heart, not just love for
God but love for others as well.

God has a way of commanding us to do
something that He knows full well we
cannot do. But as Jesus said, "Without
Me, you can do nothing." He was talking
about matters of the heart. The reason
God 'commands' some of these things is
to show us our need for Him to do them
in and through us. Be sure to listen to
some of the radio programs on

Nothing you do, like love God, for example
is going to keep you out of hell. It is what
Jesus did and now does that keeps you out
of hell. You just have agree you want that.
As a matter of fact, it is not possible for you
to create a love for God.

You just need to be sincerely wanting to
be saved and He will do it. He will do
EVERYTHING! He will give you love for
God and others, He will change your mind
one little step at a time.

I hope you read ALL (every word) of my emails
as I go to considerable trouble to write them
and finding the links I put in them. Thank
you, I appreciate it. I don't want you to read
them just for my sake of course. More than
that, I want you to read them (carefully) for
YOUR sake.

love and hugs

Did God make the rule that people who don't love Him go to Hell?

Hello Alison

I just want to say one more thing about the 'command' to love God.

It is not possible for people to love God especially if they are not Christians yet but even Christians don't come out of the gate loving God. It appears to be a process that begins once you accept Jesus into your heart. It can happen instantly or it might happen over time. With me, it seemed to take a long time but I hear others who say they loved God right away.

Here's what the Bible says about it,

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5 verses 5

You do not make it happen, God does that after you have accepted Jesus into your heart and life. You can completely trust Him to take care of it. It is no concern to you about how to conjure up this love. When we ask Jesus to come and live in us, we are also given the Holy Spirit, which is the spirit of God. The Holy Spirit is a teacher and will teach and guide you into all things.

The Christian life is not about doing or not doing a bunch of things. It is about giving God permission to do it because He will not override your free will. The Christian life is not difficult to live but without Christ living it in and through you, it is impossible to live it.

These are the steps you need to take.....
1) Believe that the Bible is God's word
2) Understand that God is 3 parts. He is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. He is one God with these 3 parts. There is probably a better word than 'parts' but I don't know what it is right off.
3) Jesus is the Son and is and was God. See the gospel of John. In verse 1, it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (emphasis mine). Then fourteen verses later, it says "The Word become flesh and dwelt among us." This 'flesh' was Jesus. It is important to understand that Jesus was and is God.
4) Once you are ready to do so, you accept Jesus into your heart and life.
5) Then you learn about Him especially through the Bible. You can also learn from teachers, if you wish.
6) Call Bob George and find out if there is a People to People Ministry near you. It is a good idea to surround yourself with others of like mind as you.

Let me know if this information is helpful.

love and hugs

My answer:
Helen: You know the answer to this question. Please be brave and answer.

Did God make the rule that people who do not believe in Jesus must go to hell?

Hi Alleee > > You do NOT go to hell because you DON'T love
> God.
> You go to hell for blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
> By Blaspheming, it is meant "unbelief".
> Unbelief usually happens because of pride.
> Blaspheming (unbelief) against the Holy Spirit is
> the only unforgivable sin. Unbelief doesn't need
> forgiveness; it needs changing to 'belief'. Do you
> understand what I mean here?
> I guarantee that you will not go to hell for not
> loving God.
> love and hugs
> yf,
> Helen


That is not what I asked. (You know that, silly.)

Here is what I asked: (scroll down to see!)

"Did God make the rule that people who do not believe in Jesus must go to hell?"

OK. I'll change it.

Helen: Did God make the rule that people who blaspheme the Holy Spirit must go to hell?

(I have blasphemed the Holy spirit in public. Damn the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a goofy, spooky, doody-head who does not exist.)

OK. Now. Did GOOOOOOOD, Jesus, Yahweh, G-D, Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah, MAKE THE RULE that blasphemers must go to hell?

Dang, Helen, with you, it's like pulling teeth. No dodgy-dodgy this time.

Now it gets interesting.

The answer is "no".

When you accept Jesus as your Lord and
Savior, you go to heaven. So it is you who
decides if you go to heaven or to hell.'


I'll accept your answer that I "choose" to go to hell. Interesting.

I have chosen between two offers, Helen.

Who made the offers, Helen?

Who provided those two choices?

Hi Alleee
Alleee, you are always concentrating on
or trying the find the negative. It is to your

God gave us the choices or the offers and
He did so because He loved us. When we
disobeyed him in the garden of Eden or
anytime thereafter, He could have just
wipe us out and said "Forget it".

If you are so sure God is doing it all wrong,
please tell me how you would have done it.
Are you saying that you know better than

To be fair to God (and yourself), you need to
try to look at it another way. Just try it

God could have simply chosen to let us
all go to hell and to live life without God.
Because He loved us, He went so far as
to become a man and die an excrutiating
death. Did you see the movie called "The

I don't understand why but apparently for
there to be light (righteousness) there has
to be darkness (evil). When you think
about it, if there was no darkness there
would be no need for light.

Do you know something ....The Bible calls
me righteous. People who know me will
tell you I am far from righteousness. God
calls me righteous because I am washed
in the blood of Jesus, cleansed of all sin
I have committed, do commit and will ever
commit. Do you see how it is not about
what I did to become righteous but it is
about what Jesus did FOR me. I hope
you will one day be able to say that about

You say you have chosen between the two
offers but remember you can always ask
God to change your mind and HE WILL!
It is never too late in this lifetime. You
might even be given a chance to change
your mind at the edge of hell after you
die ...I don't know about that as the Bible
does not talk about it but in the videos it
seemed evident that God intervened at
the edge of eternity. When ever you are
faced with evil whether it is in this life or
on the brink of hell, say the name of Jesus
over and over. He will save you. There is
power in the name of Jesus. Try it sometime.

I am praying for you.

Don't think for a minute that it was an
accident that we met on the internet. God,
I believe, is giving you another chance to
change your mind and probably was the
one who arranged this 'meeting'.

The Bible says, "..... be transformed by the
renewing of your mind ...." Romans 12:2
To do that read the Bible. Start with the
New Testament. It can't hurt, can it?

In the Bible it says, "8 But God demonstrates
His own love toward us, in that while we were
still sinners, Christ died for us." Isn't that
wonderful? He didn't ask us; He just did it.
If He had asked us, we are so stupid we would
have probably said 'no'. Then what?

Then it goes on to say in Verse 9 "9 Much more
then, having now been justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
10 For if when we were enemies we were
reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
much more, having been reconciled, we shall be
saved by His life." Romans 5: 8-10

Did you watch the videos about hell?

God bless you and yours. God hears the cry of
your heart.

love and hugs

OK. So God is in absolute control of our destinies, Helen, by offering either eternal life, or terrible, unspeakable suffering. Thank you for finally admitting it.

Of course, that is your belief, not mine.
But that is why your God is a Monster in the sky.

Let's pretend.

There is an election. Whoever is elected will be the leader of the world. One of the leaders has provided a prison for his detractors, the ones who have been trying to overthrow him, once he becomes the leader.

Now, in his speeches, the leader says he loves us more than anything in the world. All of us. But, he's so sorry, he says, because if you don't vote for him, through no fault of his own, you have to go and live in the prison with his detractors (if you're not with him, you're against him). In fact, he's set up a system where, for the rest of your life, you will be horribly mistreated in this prison, only kept alive to experience more pain. He says he has nothing to do with it, but he made the rule.

In fact, he said that it proves that he loves us all, because he's giving us a choice! Vote for him and live in his utopian world (so it is said, but we won't know for many decades, except that he wrote about it in his book), or be beaten in prison.

This is the man you voted for.

But, we ask, since he's going to be in control of the world, surely he doesn't really need to throw his detractors in prison. Surely he doesn't need to have people tortures, especially babies and people in foreign cultures so remote to have never even heard of him. What's the point of that suffering?

Well, according to his book, he's extremely jealous. So jealous, in fact, that he is powerless over his own jealousy. He may become the most powerful being in the world, but he is obviously weak when it comes to his anger and jealousy, for he proclaims that it is not only necessary for torture of individuals who have no reprieve, no chance to get out, no chance to "confess" something that was never a crime to begin with.

Yet you, Helen, you see this as Justice. You may say that this is evil, only because you cannot think beyond dualities, but you still "know" that this is just, this is His Will, therefore, this must be good.

In this scenario, Helen, you have no ability to reason. You can only obey. Therefore, you don't have any ability to morally judge an act of infinite rage and violence.

Luckily, I don't have to accept it, since it's only a story. I still know that people, you, me, everyone, has to accept responsibility for our beliefs and their implications. You're pointing a gun a people's heads and calling it "love."

Hi Alleee God not only offers eternal life. Jesus said
that our minds could not begin to fathom
the wonder of what He has prepared for us.
He said eye has not seen what the Father
has for us in heaven. Everything God has
for us is good ...except hell. He loves us
and wants to give us good gifts. Jesus
stands at the edge of hell watching people
going into it and do you know what He is
doing when he watches this. He is weeping
for them. He made it so easy for them to
accept Him but they wouldn't. He wanted
to take them under his wings like a hen
takes her chicks under her wing and He
wanted to protect them from this.

Yes, there is terrible unspeakable suffering
for those who do not accept Jesus but the
Bible tells us we will understand why it has
to be so when we are in heaven. We also will
forget people in our lives who we knew here
on earth who do not make it to heaven. God
will wipe them from our mind even if they are
our own children who refused to accept Christ.

This suffering which also goes on forever
need not be a concern to you personally but
you are letting your pride keep you from being
saved from that. There is nothing more that I
can say to you. If God came and offered you
something you desired most and you yourself
had no hope of getting it on your own, would
you let your pride stop you from accepting it?

I prefer to talk about God's love for people
rather than scaring them half to death but
the truth is there is a hell, and the rapture
will happen very soon and after watching
the "To Hell and Back" videos, I felt an urgency
to compel people to watch it and to choose God.
The final decision is theirs.

Babies and children do not go to hell.

In your example, you are talking about a man.
They cannot be trusted. Maybe if it was a
woman .... just kidding. But if the man
was a good man, fair, honest, loving then his
jail would not be an issue for those who chose
him and if he has all these attributes why
wouldn't you choose him. Pride, maybe?

Did you know that God created Hell as well
as the earth and all that is in it? Hell was
created for the fallen angels and Satan. The
way I see it He could not have Satan in
Heaven contaminating it with his evil. He
could not risk it.

God is not only just and fair and loving, He
knows that He is. He can do these things
because He is God. We are nothing compared
to what He is. Who are we to question Him?
Yet He lets us do that.

Why don't you present your concerns to
God. He will not be surprised or even angry
at anything you say. You don't even have to
accept his Son, Jesus if you don't want. Ask
God to show you these answers. I think you
will be surprised what you will find out.

I don't think your brain can get it so I will
leave it at that. You just don't get it. You
haven't got what it takes. It takes guts to be
a Christian in this world.

You went to all that trouble to tell me that story
but who am I going to listen to? You or God?

You cannot say someone did not reach out to
you in love and tell you about the Way, the Truth
and the Life.

Tell me, what will you do or think when you
find everything I said is true, then what?

Have a great life on this earth because if you
don't change your mind, it is the only great
life you will have. I really feel sorry for you.

While I still have your attention, let me ask
you if you would like to be on my mailing list.
I don't always talk about God things. I send
various kinds of email of general interest and
you can always try it for a while and if you
ever want to be taken off of my list, just let me
know. I promise not to cry.


You "prefer," to talk about the good stuff. Of course. That means you don't want to think about it. You say we'll understand after we're dead. That means you don't want to think about it, and you don't understand why.

That could work for anything, Helen, because no one REAL is "evil." But some people, and things, are destructive.

There are also some things in life that can make us forget stuff that is "uncomfortable" to think about.

What a horrible place heaven is, to shut us off from reality like that. You might as well shoot yourself up with heroin. That will make you forget people you live behind, right quick.

If your memories are wiped clean like that, you're not yourself anymore. Like people on strong dangerous drugs, that's what you make heaven seem like. LSD can make you "understanding" like heaven, too. The difference between heaven and LSD is, LSD might make you "understanding," but sometimes when you take it, all you think about is hell. It's like being on a good trip all the time.

That's a really interesting insight into heaven and hell you have, Helen. It makes me wonder if the postulation into the drug use of the writers of the bible. Of course, many religions use drugs as a component to their imagination. You ever see a fire-and-brimstone preacher? He takes short, deep breaths about every second when he yells out his "truth." That makes you high. It can make you pass out, if you're not careful.

The more I read your words, Helen, the more freaky it gets. I don't want any part of that drugged-out, hallucinatory world you've made for yourself.

I think you're high. To me, your heaven sounds like a nightmare. Your hell--well, I don't know what it is, except for the terrible things Jesus says in the bible, and that's pretty damned awful. Imagine the wonderful people that Jesus would condemn to that suffering. But those wonderful people would be forgotten. And yet they committed no crime.

NO ONE could commit a crime so terrible that they deserve what that awful Jesus suggests. There is no crime befitting such a fate. Yet, you can't even justify it. You just pretend people "forget" in heaven. Possibly so they cannot try to moralize the absolute bullshit injustice it is.

Helen, you can keep your Black Cartoon world. I like the world, thank you very much, and I wouldn't trade it for your black freakout AFTER DEATH "promise" for anything. To tell you the truth, it could have been a lot better. You could have a god that, hell, could try to fucking offer a few more choices. But he can't seem to count past the number "two." The older gods were a lot smarter and more realistic. But they are just as make-believe as yours. You know. All those religions and gods you are atheistic towards too.

Thanks, but no thanks. Take me off your list. I know you won't cry. At least you won't cry real tears.

Good bye, Helen. Consider this your preview to heaven and forget me. PLEASE.


Satori Blake said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Satori Blake said...

This brings to mind a most pertinent collage piece by Phineas Narco:

Satori Blake said...

that referenced video, or at least the audio portion, was delicious.

Slackness left my life

Hellbound Alleee said...

You know, I never bothered to open any of her links?

Mistake! I forget what gold there can be in stuff like this!

Anonymous said...


Guess what. If you can figure out when the "sudden destruction" of wicked persons takes place in I Thess. 5:3 (and also when "death" is ended in I Cor. 15:54), you will know where to place the rapture on your prophecy chart because those passages talk about the "times and seasons" (and also the "when" and "then") of the rapture. Neat, huh? And if you would like to locate the ONE article that Ice, Jeffrey, Missler, Strandberg, Lindsey, LaHaye, Van Impe, Hagee, and Swaggart don't want you to read, visit the "Powered by Christ Ministries" site and click on "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" !

Ninja said...

Alan Watts wrote: “...a person who truly believes in God would never try and thrust the idea on anyone else, just as when you understand mathematics, you are not a fanatical proponent of the idea that two and two are four.”

(He also said,“The point is that rapport with the marvelously purposeless world of nature gives us new eyes for ourselves – eyes in which our very self-importance is not condemned, but seen as something quite other than what it imagines itself to be. In this light, all the weirdly abstract and pompous pursuits of men are suddenly transformed into natural marvels of the same order as the immense beaks of the toucans and hornbills, the fabulous tails of the birds of paradise, the towering necks of the giraffes, and the vividly polychromed posteriors of the baboons… Seen thus, the self-importance of man dissolves in laughter.”)